Rise & Grind Is Oppression
Comedian and writer Zainne Saleh thinks morning people are not better than you. Why do we worship 6AM wake-ups? Who decided success starts with an alarm clock? And when did “grindset” become a personality? In this episode, Zainne questions everything we’ve been told about productivity, makes the case for sleeping in, and calls out the capitalist myth behind “rise and grind.” Let girls sleep. Let brown people chill. And stop acting like waking up early makes you better. Credits Host: Kareem Rahma Guest: Zainne Saleh Creators: Kareem Rahma & Andrew Kuo Camera: Anthony DiMieri & Thomas Kasem Lim Editor: Tyler Christie Associate Producer: Ramy Shafi Artwork: Andrew Lawandus
Summary
Comedian and writer Zainne Saleh has a provocative take: morning supremacy is misogynist. Kareem, a natural 6 a.m. riser who hasn't used an alarm in a decade, plays the perfect foil as Zainne tears into hustle culture's obsession with early wake-ups. She argues that 30% of people are natural night owls, that sleep studies ignore women's needs (9 to 11 hours versus men's 8), and that forcing everyone onto the same schedule kills productivity. The conversation spirals from Pakistan's circadian rhythms to Egypt's post-lunch horizontal hour to a hilarious riff on capitalism limiting the worm supply. Let girls sleep. Let brown people chill. Zainne's too tired to fight capitalism, but she's wide awake for dismantling the grindset myth.
Full Transcript
So, what's your take? End morning supremacy. 100% agree, right? Morning is better, but you don't have to talk about it.
Also, why is it—why is this the schedule that we've just been given? I mean, you have to wake up. I know, but why? What time do you want to wake up? Like, why do we have to wake up at like—like in the morning and start our day like in the morning? Like 30% of people are naturally night owls.
Are you a night owl? Yes.
So, what time do you wake up? Okay, so it varies. You look sleepy.
It varies. That's cuz I woke up early today. It varies between like 10—naturally between like 10:00 a.m. and noon. That's why late morning when I went to Pakistan, everybody was kind of on that schedule. They were on the—the sleep on the—on the—like the circadian rhythm of my people is probably different. It is probably different.
And 30% of people have like a circadian rhythm where they simply cannot wake up early. But it's the minimum. It's—it's the—the minority of people dealing with your condition, right? But imagine if those 30% of people were more productive. Like imagine—imagine what that would do for like our country—like our GDP. Well, I actually worked with someone who told the bosses he was like, I—I can't—I don't wake up at at 8:00.
Oh my god. And so he—he was on a schedule where he came in to work every day. He worked from 11:00 to 7:00 and everyone else worked from like 9:00 to 5:00. And how was his productivity and how was his creativity? It was great.
Right. Because like I also don't think creative people tend to wake up early. I wake up really early. I'm very creative.
Really? Yeah. But I wake up naturally. I don't use an alarm clock. I wake up every day. I've—I haven't used an alarm clock in about 10 years. And I used to wake up—I used to work up at 8:00 a.m. No alarm clock.
Wow. And then I started waking up at 7:00 a.m. No alarm clock. Now I wake up at 6:00. No alarm clock. I don't want to. It's just my circadian rhythm.
Okay. But do you like shove it into people's face? Like I wake up at 6:00 a.m. and then I go to the gym and like you're kind of just like chill about it. No, no, no. I'm not—ch—I don't even talk about it. I just live my life. But here's the thing: I'm an early bird, but I'm also a night owl. I'm both.
Oh my god. You do? So— I need minimal sleep. I only need 5 to 6 hours of sleep a day.
Okay. So all of these sleep studies where they say we need only 8 hours a day, they were all conducted on men. So like you can get away to with 5 hours a night, but like actually women are supposed to get seven—9 to 11 hours. I—I support women and they should have as much sleep as they want. Morning supremacy is actually misogynist. Morning supremacy is misogynist.
It's kind of—it's unproductive. We could probably be beating China. Let girls sleep if we—like, let girls sleep.
Let girls sleep. Let girls sleep.
Let girls sleep. I'm never waking up a girl again.
Let brown people chill. Also sleep.
Also sleep. Yeah. Well, in many brown cultures, they need to sleep in the middle of the day. Siesta, little nap after lunch. Brown people love to sleep. I'm from Egypt and there's—there's an—they don't sleep after lunch but they lay down.
They take an hour of horizontal. Okay. So they're—they're vertical all day and then they eat lunch at 3:00 and then they go horizontal for 1 hour. You don't sleep though. You just go horizontal.
That's—and then you continue your vertical day. That's definitely—yeah. That's not morning supremacy. That's like a very—I don't know what that is. No.
But it's like definitely chill. So does it bother you when you read articles about like, "Oh, wake up at 6:00, take a ice bath, eat breakfast"? Yeah. I'm just like, this is morning supremacy. Like, this is like—why is that the only way? That's the only thing that we rever.
You know what I don't like? Like— "Early bird gets the worm." That's not true.
It's—it's cheesy. Sometimes early bird take— So you're not an early bird.
No, I'm not. And you don't get the worm. Or do you get the worm?
I actually do think I get the worm. Do you get the worm at other times of the day? You think the person who's the most chill like at the end of the day gets the worm. So you think the—chill—so not the early bird gets a worm, but the—the late afternoon chiller gets the worm.
Everybody can have the worm. Well— People—not everyone.
Why are we competing? Because supremacy is capitalist culture.
There's not enough worms to go around. So there has to be an early—scarcity mindset come from.
I have an abundance mindset. Right. So why do you say there aren't enough worms to go around?
Well, I wish there were enough worms to go around, but because we live— You said there's not enough worms. Said that we're supposed to wake up early in the morning.
No, but capitalism limits the amount of worms that are available and then they force the early bird to go get the worm and then all the other birds don't—are left with no worms. That's the problem—is the capitalism wants you to be an early bird so they limit that amount of worms. Yeah, but we could reframe capitalism to—to have more—whatever's more—
Well, yeah. Well, I can't fight capitalism. I can't—I'm too tired. I'm too fucking tired.