HealthHistorical domestication of pigeons by European settlersMedia

Pigeons deserve to be treated better. @noah_chenfeld

Apr 30, 2026 · 2:12

Created/Produced by Kareem Rahma (@kareem) and Andrew Kuo (@akuoproject)

Summary

Host Kareem Rahma meets Noah Chenfeld, who passionately defends pigeons as misunderstood creatures we've unfairly vilified. They're not disease carriers. European settlers brought them here in the 1600s, they adapted brilliantly to city life, and they actually help us by eating garbage. The conversation spirals into defending rats too, celebrating getting pooped on for good luck, and ends with Noah plugging his band's upcoming show dedicated to pigeons.

Topics

Full Transcript

So, what's your take? Pigeons deserve to be treated better.

100% agree. Pigeons are treated like second-ass citizens in this country.

It's true. They didn't bring the disease. We brought the disease.

But they moved it around.

They didn't even move it around.

Oh, so why are we so mad at pigeons? Everyone's like, "They're filled with diseases."

No. No. Here's the thing. We domesticated them. European settlers brought them over in the 1600s, mostly 'cause they're good food.

Yeah. In many parts of the world, people are still eating pigeons.

They adapted to our city incredibly.

Yeah. They eat our garbage to survive.

So they help us.

They help us, and then we think they're gross.

Why do people think that they're filled with diseases and such?

It's a myth. There's a lot of myths out there, Kareem.

The slander against pigeons is up, and we should treat birds with respect.

I agree. I think we take them for granted. I think they look cool, too. I think if there weren't millions of them in the city and there was just a few, when you saw them, you'd be like, "Whoa, what's that cool kind of like purple odd-shaped head? Like, what's going on?" I think they'd be like kind of an exotic...

Sunlight. When the sunlight hits it, it kind of has that sheen.

Yes.

And then a flock of pigeons. I love to walk through a flock of pigeons.

I love it.

You know who else I think gets a really bad rap?

Go on.

Rats.

I agree.

They're just living.

They're just living. I agree. I don't want them to step on my foot.

I don't even mind if they step on my foot.

Really? You're—you're not—you're not going to jump and freak out if they jump? Because I'm like, "Woo!"

But you're not going to hate them for it.

To me, it's like a rat is like a squirrel.

Right?

And a squirrel is like a cat, and a cat is like a dog, and a dog is like a horse. You're right.

They're all just animals trying to get by.

Pigeons can find their way back home from thousands of miles away. I need Google Maps to get back from the laundromat.

Cool.

People don't want to get shat on by a pigeon.

That's good luck.

It's very good luck.

Getting shat on by a pigeon is a New York City right of passage. Everybody should get shat on by a pigeon. It's easy to—it's easy to scrub off, and I guarantee you good luck will come your way.

Yeah, it's happened to me. Last time a pigeon shat on me, I found a $20 bill on the floor right next door to it.

It's that simple. If you like pigeons and rats, Tiny Gun and Rebounder are playing a show May 7th at Alphaville.

We might even dedicate a song to a pigeon or two.

I'm dedicating all my songs to the pigeons.

Done.

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